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Draw 2 cards.
illus. Ken Sugimori
Formats: Other: 1999–2001
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Anonymous
Is there errata that makes this a supporter since the release of the reprint?
Innocent_Shine
Yeah, since it was reprinted as a Supporter. Using a Base Bill in Unlimited is still a Supporter. (This is why Base Professor Oak is a Trainer even though Juniper is a Supporter with the same effect; different names.)
Anonymous
Wow that sucks. I just got back into the game and I gotta say all these supporters are making this game super slow.
Innocent_Shine
That’s what I thought at first when I came back. Then it became normal to do 120 damage on the first turn, and last format was even faster than this one.
Curtis
On the issue of power creep, I’d like to point something out. In the early days of the game, the power of decks came from the insanely fast draw engine. Since OHKOs were far from common, the game was slowed down by lengthy battles. Today, the game is more or less about 1 or 2HKOing everything, with the game being slowed down by the existance of supporters. While Pokemon are obviously getting more powerful, it seems to me that its being done to controll the pace of the game, not to outshine older cards.
Benjamin Poke Battler
OR…just put in a Cheren or Tierno to draw three cards instead…
jelze
This originally wasn’t a supporter. You could play 4 of these turn 1 to draw 8.
Benjamin Poke Battler
and youre going to magically have 4 bills in your hand at once?
Dark Kira
Well, yeah, because you also had 4 Professor Oak and 4 Item Finder. And even if you only have 2 Bill you still draw 1 more card than with Cheren.
Benjamin Poke Battler
bills ad cherens are boring trainers, even if they are good. I play to have fun, not collect 2 or 3 cards.
feyblade
Consider this: After playing bill, your hand size increases by one. After playing Cheren, your hand size increases by two and you lose the ability to play a supporter during your turn. Which puts you in a superior state , assuming you’re running a well managed deck?
Bill has virtually no opportunity cost, supporters have a sizable opportunity cost simply because they are supporters. Ignoring item nullification effects (if they’re active and not in your favor, you have lost the game), drawing bill from the top of your dick is strictly better than drawing a card, something that only a very elite club of cards (IE Poke Drawer + ) can say.
It’s best to think of bill as two random cards from your deck stapled together. And yes, one of those two cards could be a Cheren.
Benjamin Poke Battler
good luck with that
feyblade
As in, good luck with pulling a Cheren after BIll?
Yes, good luck with that. You card draw is a random, fickle thing…but I can tell you that drawing two cards rather than one on any given turn definitely increases your odds of drawing what you want!
Imagine a card that says:
“Reveal this card to your opponent before setting up the game, then remove it from your deck.
If you would do so, you gain an emblem that says “your minimum deck size is decreased by 4 and whenever you draw a card (even at the start of the game) you have a one in 15 chance of drawing two cards instead.”
Would you ever NOT include that card in your deck? Would you ever turn it down? Because that card is functionally the same thing as(or, in fact, actually kind of weaker than) 4Xing classic Bill in your deck.
jelze
Love the MTG flavor in that description. Sounds like a Bill Planeswalker’s ultimate.
Bill, Storage System Creator (0 mana, starts at 2 loyalty)
+1 draw 2 cards
+1 flip a coin, if heads draw 4 cards
-6 you gain an emblem that says “your minimum deck size is decreased by 4 and whenever you draw a card (even at the start of the game) you have a one in 15 chance of drawing two cards instead.”
Dark Kira
Nice idea, but a bit overpowered I think, would make it like this:
Bill, Storage System Creator (1UUU, Loyalty: 2)
Planeswalker – Bill
+1: Flip a coin. If heads, draw 4 cards.
0: Draw cards until you have 4 cards in your hand.
-5: You get an emblem with “Everytime you would draw a card, flip 4 coins. If all of them are heads, you may instead draw 2 cards.”
The probabilty of getting 4 heads is about the same as 1 in 15, so that should work as an actually doable wording.
Also I really like the idea of Pokemon Planeswalkers, but unfortunately there aren’t many characters that have enough cards to make Planeswalkers of, probably only about 5 others.
jelze
Well bill is supposed to be broken :)
Dark Kira
Good point :D
Benjamin Poke Battler
I don’t know, maybe it’s just me, but I never cared for the Draw two, three, four cards thing. Not a fun trainer, just a good one.
jelze
You won’t initially, but with all your other trainer or item based draw you will
achildrenscardgame
I don’t think it’s clear what this card does.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ay_S8NjPEXk
Otaku
The Great Bill Debate; was it real or just in my imagination?
You’ll often hear how Bill was a no-brainer card, at least before it was reprinted as a Supporter years later. However, cursory digging and testing suggest otherwise. At the very least, funning a full four Bill may not have been the optimal play. It is important to remember that we are discussing Bill at a time when Computer Search, Item Finder, and Professor Oak were legal; decks were not hurting for draw or search. What they were hurting for was room to run all the powerful Trainer cards available in the days of Base Set-only play!
So I post this, hoping that folks will share their own experiences over time. Remember, it isn’t just “No Bill versus 4 Bill”; perhaps the ideal amount was something in between.
Tokiwa City Smuggle
To me, if the card does not say “Supporter” it isn’t a supporter. Same way with Ace Spec cards, If it doesn’t say “Ace Spec” is not an Ace Spec! Unless TCPi comes out with a statement that says “You cannot run 4 Bills in a deck in the unlimited format because it’s now a supporter”, I’m going to treat as just a Trainer card. No more guess work from me!
Otaku
From the Play! Pokémon Tournament Rules Handbook, available here:
5.4.1.3 Reprinted Cards in the Standard & Expanded Formats
Cards that have previously existed in the format are occasionally reprinted in newer expansions. In these cases, the older version of the card may be played if:
•The name of the new card is identical to that of the older card;
•All text printed on the new card is functionally identical to that of the older card.
Consider the following examples when determining whether any two cards are functionally identical:
•Copycat (CES, 127) and Copycat (TRR, 83) are functionally identical. Although the wording has been altered, the effect described remains unchanged.
•Rainbow Energy (CES, 151) and Rainbow Energy (TR, 17) are not functionally identical, as the former “put[s] 1 damage counter” while the latter“does 10 damage”—damage counters and damage are separate mechanics in the Pokémon TCG,and cannot be referenced interchangeably.
5.4.2.2 Reprinted Cards in the Unlimited Format
As there is no restriction on the number of expansions legal for play in the Unlimited format, players will occasionally come across cards from older expansions that have the same name as newer cards but completely different effects.
Players may still include those older versions of the card in their decks, provided that the wording of the most recent version is used wherever that card is concerned.
Tokiwa City Smuggle
It’s not very clear when they mentioned about “recent wording” though. I guess it depends on your definition of “recent wording” but to me it’s what the card does, not the what the card is. For instance Master Ball is now an Ace Spec card but it’s only an Ace Spec if it says that on the card. If you’re using an older version of Master Ball, it is not an Ace Spec because it doesn’t say it on there and also has to have the Ace Spec ruling on there too, however you have to use the new wording of the Ace Spec Master Ball to use it now. That wording is “searching for a Pokemon in your deck” as opposed to “draw the top 7 cards of your deck for Basic or Evolution Pokemon” The old wording no longer is in print anymore. But unlike the Ace Spec card you can use it like a normal item card meaning you can have 4 in a deck as oppose to only having one.
In the case of Bill it is supporter if it says “Supporter” on it and it has the supporter rule down below the card. You just go by the effect of that card as opposed to what type of trainer it is today in the Standard format (well when it was still in the Standard format).
Otaku
The rules I quoted don’t say “recent wording”; the rules I quoted say “the wording of the most recent version”. That means you take the newest release of the card and treat the older versions as if they read the exact same way. In other words, the most recent release of Bill made it a Supporter, so older versions of Bill are now to be played as a Supporter.
I know it can be a bit confusing because certain game terms and mechanics have changed over the years, plus they do issue errata for certain cards. This page, from the official site, contains the relevant documents, including the one to which I linked in my previous post.
If this sounds like a lot, remember we’re talking about play using the official rules of the present with cards that can be more than 20 years old! The most recent version of Bill – HeartGold & SoulSilver 89/123 – is still over 10 years old. The fact that you can use such old cards in organized play, even if only for the Unlimited Format, is still a good deal.
Tokiwa City Smuggle
Ok I understand now but what about Ace Spec cards and the recent printing of Pokemon Center? I remembered hearing that players were unable to play the older versions of Computer Search because they weren’t the same card as the Ace Spec one. So is now the old version of Computer Search treated as in Ace Spec card?
As for Pokemon Center, are the older versions now considered a stadium card?
Otaku
Perhaps a better question is “Why would those be exceptions?” I’m not asking that to give you a hard time, but to get you thinking. If you do have a reason and it isn’t addressed below, I guess go ahead and ask. ;) Before I do address your question in a bit more detail, also understand that the rules I’m telling you now were not always in effect.
The only time you don’t go by the card text – which means all the game relevant text on the card, not just the “effect” text – is if there is an erratum for it that is even more recent than the latest printing of that card.
Is the Ace Spec version of that card the most recent version released? Then in the Unlimited Format, you may use older versions of the card, but you treat them as if they were the exact same as the most recent version. That means Computer Search and Master Ball are now Ace Spec cards, and Master Ball lets you snag any Pokémon from your deck (instead of its original effect).
Even when using Base Set, Base Set 2, or WotC Black Star Promos version of Pokémon Center, you now play it as if it read the same as its most recent release. Unless I missed something, that means the version from BW – Next Destinies, which is a Stadium that lets the turn player heal 20 damage from one of their Benched Pokémon, once during their turn before they attack.
You’ll also note that I specified the Unlimited Format; for the Standard and Expanded Formats, you simply aren’t allowed to use older versions of a card unless they’re functionally identical to the most recent release (or erratum, if that is newer), or if an official erratum has been issued for that card.
So, is it making any sense now? If it is, I can tell you a bit about how it used to be, and why they changed things to work the way they do now.
Tokiwa City Smuggle
Yes, it all makes sense to me! Thank you for breaking it all down!! This makes me wish there was an ACTUAL unlimited (I.e. any set released) format for TCGO. It would just make things a lot easier to understand especially for reprint versions of older cards. And yeah, go ahead, and tell me that tale. I’m enthralled of the short history of it!
Otaku
Glad to hear it finally is making sense to you, Tokiwa City Smuggle.
Yes, I wish the PTCGO Unlimited Format actually included all the older sets; there might still be some weird legal rights issues with the sets released by Wizards of the Coast, but the main reason is that the PTCGO appears to be a pretty low-budget affair. Which kind of makes sense; it isn’t an online TCG intended to generate its own revenue, but seems more like a combination extended demo for new players and reward program for customers who buy first-hand product (due to redemption codes).
This list – its over on PokéGym – should help a little. It is a list of all cards legal for the Standard Format. Relevant to you is that it covers ALL sets… so you can glance at the section covering “Base Set” to know that Energy Retrieval, Potion, and Switch from Base Set are actually legal for Standard Format play.
If I remember correctly, Wizards of the Coast didn’t let you use “foreign language cards” at their events, and “Play as printed.” was their usual ruling for cards with errors. If there were any cases of newer releases of cards substantially changing an effect, I THINK you were supposed to use the newest version of the card as a reference for how they all now worked, but WotC hasn’t run the game since mid-2003, so please pardon me if I’m remembering it wrong.
When what we now know as TPCi took over, eventually they adjusted it so that you could use foreign language cards BUT you needed a copy of your local language version of the card for reference’s sake. The same was true when it came to using older copies of cards with substantially different wording. If the wording was functionally the same, though, you could use ANY older copies of a card. Of course, the history of the game was less than 10 years at that point.
I think they frowned on folks who would run just one copy of a card that needed such a reference; if you had to have one of the correct, current version to use as reference, and were only running one outdated or foreign language version, just replace the latter with the former. ;)
Eventually, they created an online reference of all cards text so you could just print out the correct page from that and use it as a reference for your outdated text and/or foreign language cards. Then they stopped, because after trying this for several years, it was just too much of a headache. That is when we (more or less) went to the above system, which includes language rules as well. Basically, certain languages are seen as “native” to certain areas. For example, Canada has English and French, Mexico English and Spanish, and the USA just English. At least, if I remember that all correctly.
JP
Although old Trainers are considered Items under modern-day rules, this card was reprinted as a Supporter, effectively removing the old version of it from the game.